New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

[Pstork1]

If you haven't seen the announcement yet about the Licensing changes that are coming to PowerApps and Flow starting on October 1, 2019 you really need to read the following Blog. This announcement was originally made at Inspire this year, but has undergone a number of significant changes.  Make sure you read this and understand what it means to you and your organization.

https://powerapps.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/new-licensing-options-for-powerapps-and-flow/

[JohnP]

@Eickhel, @Pstork1 

Wow. This is horrible. How to explain this increased cost to the customer? With the E5 licenses our customer could consume the app with no additional cost until now. And now they have to pay an additional $120 per user per year? And without no prior notice?

Edit:

The existing P1 and P2 plans for PowerApps and Microsoft Flow will be transitioning to the new PowerApps per app and per user plans, as well as the Microsoft Flow per user and per Microsoft Flow plans.

E5 licenses have P1 ... does that not mean that they already have a "PowerApps per app" plan?

[Pstork1]

One Correction.  Office 365 E5 licenses contain the standard PowerApps license, not the P1 license.  The P1 license is going away Oct 1, unless you are grandfathered in for a year.  Choices in the future will be the "seeded" license included with E5, PerApp license at $10/user/app/month, or standalone $40/per user per month.

And I agree that a lot of customers are going to have sticker shock.  But to be clear.  You can continue to use PowerApps and Flow to enhance SharePoint and OneDrive without additional cost. Developing using SQL and Azure, which I do like a lot, is what will get massively more expensive for Office users.

[digiservice]

For us this is going to most likely pull the plug on all PowerApps development. 

We don't want to silo data into sharepoint lists but cannot justify the cost for 1500 staff members to access apps connected to SQL.

Really quite outrageous, we will be forced to use a competitor product.

Such a shame, Microsoft, please rethink this.

[Pstork1]

I agree with the sentiment.  My only advice would be to make sure to price out the thrid party options before you pull the plug.  Most of the people I know who work with them suggest that the cost is comparable to the new pricing in PowerApps and Flow.  That's one of the reasons MS thinks they can get away with this.

[pulsebeat]

Convinced organization that Power Platform was way to go....check.

Spent year+ ramping up skills .... check.

Developed 20 plus business applictions now in use throughout organization....check.
Have many other apps in the pipeline....check.

Won't be able to take budget hit...check.

Earlier today I spoke to our MS reps about this, trying to get some clarity.    They did their best to explain but were noticably subdued.  You can tell that they were like "Even I can't believe this".  

[opit]

What will happen with shared apps in Office 365 environment? For example, let’s say I have an app that uses Azure SQL connector (which will become Premium) that I shared with 10 other Office 365 users. Will all 10 app users have to purchase a PowerApps plan or is 1 plan enough for the app owner starting from the 1st of October 2019?

[Eickhel]

All users will need to have a license.

Keep in mind of the grandfathered period until 2024 if you already have your app in production using the Azure SQL connector.

[opit]

@Eickhel  could you please comment on "app in production"? for example: if i create and publish an app till 1st of october, will it count as app on production?

And if i am going to make some changes, updates to this app after 1st of october?

[Eickhel]

According to the docs ( you can also check your Office 365 message center ), if the app was deployed before Oct. 1st it will be granted the grandfathered period. During this period you will be able to use the Azure SQL connector as if it was a standard one.

[Pstork1]

App in production just means an app that has been shared and Published.  It should also include any apps that you wrote for yourself.

[JohnP]

@Pstork1 

So, if I create and deploy 50 dummy apps (basically just a start screen and the connector) to production those apps will be free to use the next 5 years? I can then change/update the apps as needs within the organization arises; i.e. App39 can be the new ticketing system 2 years from now?

[Pstork1]

Theoretically, yes.  But its a clear attempt to do an end run around the new licensing.  So will it hold up if MS takes notice?  Not sure.

The problem is that to establish the connector you need a database and I don't think you can really edit the connector and change the database later.  So you would also need to spin up 50 databases on 50 different server aliases (so that you could move them later if needed).

[JohnP]

@Pstork1 

How about using an SQL elastic pool? I think you can have any number of db's within a fixed cost base. The more active databases you get you can just scale up the resources of the pool. I'm not really sure if this would work.

[Pstork1]

I don't know if that would work either.  I've never tried connecting to an elastic pool.  Either way its still violates the spirit of the exception even if it doesn't violate the letter of the law.

[JohnP]

The law changes without notice. MS recommended in june to split our main app into smaller focused apps for performance reasons. We were also recommended to move to either CDS or SQL for the same reasons. We did both and invested resources into this. One month later they dump this news on us. Our smallest customer - 100 users - will need to cough up a minimum of 12.000 USD per year IF we manage to squeeze everything into one app - 48.000 USD if not. Outrageous.

If creating 50 dummy apps and using an SQL elastic pool (with 50 idle databases) can get us around this I have no qualms about it.

[MagnusGöransson]

I have another scenario that I would like to discuss.

Let say I have a canvas app that are primarly used on PC's (tablet mode, horizontal) and there is also a demand for a less feature packed mobile app (mobile mode, vertical). That means two PowerApps connecting to the same data source (Azure SQL).

Will that mean that I need two $10/app/user/month licenses?

[PaulD1]

My understanding is that the license is actually per 'business process' which may be served by up to two Apps, so I guess if you need a full fledged desktop and cut-down mobile app, that would be permissable under a single 'App'/User/Month subscription. Though how that will be policed and who defines what counts as a 'business process' will be interesting to see.

[MagnusGöransson]

Thanks!

I have so many discussions around this with my customers rigth now and there are so many things that are unclear.

I hope you are correct

[PaulD1]

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@MagnusGöransson wrote:

Thanks!

I have so many discussions around this with my customers rigth now and there are so many things that are unclear.

I hope you are correct

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If you are at the planning stage it may pay to accelerate your development to get 'minimum viable product' apps in place (using the Azure SQL Connector) before October 1st so they are grandfathered in for 5 years. You then have breathing space to evaluate other products/technologies (we're investigating Progressive Web Apps for cross-platform, cross form-factor apps that are easy to deploy and can access on-device features like camera and gps) that may offer a value-proposition closer to the old licensing for PowerApps.

[Pstork1]

The per App license can cover an app that contains two applications, so for that scenario I think you should be fine with one $10 license per user using either app.  But remember if you have 4 Apps like that you are already at the same cost as the standalone license at $40 per user/month and that covers unlimited numbers of Apps.